Legacy Ruling 4 - Revision history

Teltura: /* Decision */

2025-05-04T15:48:57Z

Decision

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:48, 4 May 2025
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	== Decision ==		== 2025-04-25 Decision ==

	The Legacy Rules Team opted for option B. The Comprehensive Rules 4.2 will have the following individual card ruling added:		The Legacy Rules Team opted for option B. The Comprehensive Rules 4.2 will have the following individual card ruling added:

Teltura at 23:38, 3 May 2025

2025-05-03T23:38:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:38, 3 May 2025
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	The Legacy Rules Team opted for option B. The Comprehensive Rules 4.2 will have the following individual card ruling added:		The Legacy Rules Team opted for option B. The Comprehensive Rules 4.2 will have the following individual card ruling added:

	* Card: Harrowdale (11S243):
	* Ruling Type: Ruling		{{Quote\|title={{Card\|Harrowdale}}\|text=
	* Ruling Text: While the fellowship is at this site, at the start of each skirmish involving a :rohan: companion, make each minion in that skirmish lose fierce and unable to gain fierce until the regroup phase. ~~This effect does not "follow" the fellowship to a second site.~~

	{{Quote\|title=Harrowdale ~~(11S243)~~\|text=
	* '''Ruling Type''': Ruling		* '''Ruling Type''': Ruling
	* '''Ruling Text''': While the fellowship is at this site, at the start of each skirmish involving a {{C\|Rohan}} companion, make each minion in that skirmish lose fierce and unable to gain fierce until the regroup phase. This effect does not "follow" the fellowship to a second site.		* '''Ruling Text''': While the fellowship is at this site, at the start of each skirmish involving a {{C\|Rohan}} companion, make each minion in that skirmish lose fierce and unable to gain fierce until the regroup phase. This effect does not "follow" the fellowship to a second site.

Teltura at 07:13, 29 April 2025

2025-04-29T07:13:19Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{CardSplashImage|Harrowdale}}
-'''Status: Voting (2025-04-25)'''
+'''Status: Ruling Enacted on Gemp (2025-04-25)'''
 = Harrowdale =
@@ Line 55: / Line 55: @@
 * '''B''': do we apparently follow LOTRO and make it only function when the fellowship moves to the site
 ----

Teltura at 19:51, 25 April 2025

2025-04-25T19:51:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:51, 25 April 2025
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	{{CardSplashImage\|Harrowdale}}		{{CardSplashImage\|Harrowdale}}
	'''Status: ~~Discussion~~ (2025-04-13)'''		'''Status: Voting (2025-04-25)'''
	= Harrowdale =		= Harrowdale =

Teltura: Created page with "{{CardSplashImage|Harrowdale}} '''Status: Discussion (2025-04-13)''' = Harrowdale = TOC {{Card|Harrowdale}} reads: {{CardText|Harrowdale}} The way that this card should be interpreted is unclear. It could be: * '''A''': When the fellowship moves to or from this site, the following is in force until the regroup phase: At the start of each skirmish involving a {{CI|Rohan}} companion, make each minion in that skirmish lose fierce and unable to gain fierce until..."

2025-04-13T18:58:57Z

Created page with "{{CardSplashImage|Harrowdale}} '''Status: Discussion (2025-04-13)''' = Harrowdale = __TOC__ {{Card|Harrowdale}} reads: {{CardText|Harrowdale}} The way that this card should be interpreted is unclear. It could be: * '''A''': When the fellowship moves to or from this site, the following is in force until the regroup phase: At the start of each skirmish involving a {{CI|Rohan}} companion, make each minion in that skirmish lose fierce and unable to gain fierce until..."

New page

{{CardSplashImage|Harrowdale}}
'''Status: Discussion (2025-04-13)'''
= Harrowdale =

__TOC__

{{Card|Harrowdale}} reads:

{{CardText|Harrowdale}}

The way that this card should be interpreted is unclear. It could be:

* '''A''': When the fellowship moves to or from this site, the following is in force until the regroup phase: At the start of each skirmish involving a {{CI|Rohan}} companion, make each minion in that skirmish lose fierce and unable to gain fierce until the regroup phase.
* '''B''': While at this site, at the start of each skirmish involving a {{CI|Rohan}} companion, make each minion in that skirmish lose fierce and unable to gain fierce until the regroup phase.

The basic difference is that A enforces the fierce-loss when the fellowship begins their turn at Harrowdale, while B is only valid when the fellowship moves to the site.

The main source of the question comes from the observation that this is a card clearly intended to benefit the {{C|Rohan}} player, but consider: if it is B, ''they only gain benefit if Shadow plays the site'' (barring effects like {{Card|Pathfinder}}).

== Similar Cards ==
There are a variety of cards which use the nonstandard arrangement of putting "until the regroup phase" at the start of an effect, usually when there are multiple clauses and the designer wants to be clear that all of them are affected:

* {{Card|Support of the Last Homely House}} (and various other ally-calling effects from Fellowship Block)
{{CardText|Support of the Last Homely House}}
* {{Card|Phial of Galadriel, Star-glass}}
{{CardText|Phial of Galadriel, Star-glass}}
* {{Card|Sack of the Shire}}
{{CardText|Sack of the Shire}}

Sack of the Shire in particular is an obvious result of confusion surrounding the earlier {{Card|Savagery to Match Their Numbers}}:
{{CardText|Savagery to Match Their Numbers}}

As the original wording makes it ambiguous whether the "until" clause is meant to apply to the fierce addition or both fierce and strength.

== Precedent ==

* In 2012, [https://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php?topic=7727.0 this same question was brought up] due to a [https://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,7592.msg75683.html#msg75683 bug report on the fledgling Gemp]. It was attested by one player within that thread that the [[Lord of the Rings Online TCG]] platform operated as option B, but option A was mentioned as being done in physical (casual) play.
* Harrowdale is mentioned [http://web.archive.org/web/20050523030439/http://lotrtcg.fanhq.com:80/Articles/Article.aspx?ID=806 in an article on Decipher's website] as clearly a fellowship-focused site, but leaves the execution unmentioned.
* Gemp as of the Grand Card Rework currently implements option B.

== The Question ==

Do we:

* '''A''': make Harrowdale function when moving away from it for one site

or

* '''B''': do we apparently follow LOTRO and make it only function when the fellowship moves to the site

----

{{Rules_Table}}